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Jan 6 16 4:03 PM

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In looking through our LotR collections my friend and I are trying to figure where a Mumak and crew would fit in?   I can see the Mumak as a Greater Warbeast, but then what about the archers riding on it?  I am coming up with 12 pts total.
Warbeast 6pts
Fear         2pts
Archers    4pts

I suppose one could leave off Fear and be at 10pts to fit into the rules, and you could either specify that you are attackin the Mumak or the archers.

Any thoughts?

 
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#3 [url]

Jan 7 16 4:13 AM

Hobgoblin wrote:
You could just treat the archers as a flame/spore attack for 2 points. That would give you a pretty powerful 10-point profile when combined with Fear.

The problem is the Wild Charge.  Adding the ranged attack loses the Wild Charge (which surely defines a Mumak!)

I think it needs something else.  I'm thinking use the Were rules.  So the unit starts the game as an archer unit (counting the houda as cover) but when it takes damage it can run amok and is transformed into a Greater Warbeast with the caveat that it will Wild Charge friend or foe alike - going for the nearest unit if it has a choice.  It causes fear but is also fearful.  So you have a wildly unpredictable unit that could do what you want or could ramapge through half your army at the first whiff of danger.  Would be fun(ny?) to play anyway!

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#4 [url]

Jan 7 16 4:53 AM

Removing wild charge is generally treated as a bonus, worth 1 point as an upgrade.
You two might agree to waive this portion of the flame/spore upgrade, but keep the cost as is.
That way you have a rampaging shooting stompy fantasy elephant.

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#5 [url]

Jan 7 16 6:06 AM

The problem is the Wild Charge prevents the unit from shooting - if it's within 10" it has to test for Wild Charge and therefore can't be activated later to shoot.

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#6 [url]

Jan 7 16 6:15 AM

jon1066 wrote:
The problem is the Wild Charge prevents the unit from shooting - if it's within 10" it has to test for Wild Charge and therefore can't be activated later to shoot.

D'oh! You're right of course.
I must remember in future, caffeine first, then post...

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#7 [url]

Jan 7 16 8:10 AM

jon1066 wrote:

Hobgoblin wrote:
You could just treat the archers as a flame/spore attack for 2 points. That would give you a pretty powerful 10-point profile when combined with Fear.

The problem is the Wild Charge.  Adding the ranged attack loses the Wild Charge (which surely defines a Mumak!)

I think it needs something else.  I'm thinking use the Were rules.  So the unit starts the game as an archer unit (counting the houda as cover) but when it takes damage it can run amok and is transformed into a Greater Warbeast with the caveat that it will Wild Charge friend or foe alike - going for the nearest unit if it has a choice.  It causes fear but is also fearful.  So you have a wildly unpredictable unit that could do what you want or could ramapge through half your army at the first whiff of danger.  Would be fun(ny?) to play anyway!

I'm not so sure about Wild Charge defining a mumak. The mumakil don't do much charging in The Lord of the RIngs, at least not before they're routed. They actually seem to be quite well controlled by their crews and pretty steadfast:

"But wherever the mûmakil came there the horses would not go, but blenched and swerved away; and the great monsters were unfought, and stood like towers of defence, and the Haradrim rallied about them."

On the other hand, your suggested rule makes sense for when they do go wild (as seen by Sam in Ithilien). But I think it loses the "towers of defence" aspect - unless you define the archers as being in superior cover (like castle walls) from the get-go. 

Here's a thought: what about using the Greater Warbeast + Flame/Spore Attack (archers) + Fear, but adding a rule that when mumakil are have no room to retreat, the blocking units (whether friend or foe) take the damage that the mumak would normally take (based on the single-die Courage roll). So, a routing mumak could be advantageous, in that it might blunder into enemy forces, but it could equally (and more likely) be damaging to its own side. 

That would also have the effect of making enemy cavalry even more discinclined to engage! Cavalry units can be pretty useful at "outflanking" enemies in DR/LR, by getting in position behind enemy units, who will then suffer from no room to retreat if pushed back. But you wouldn't want to do that with a mumak ...


 

Last Edited By: Hobgoblin Jan 7 16 8:14 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#9 [url]

Jan 7 16 10:17 AM

Another thought would be to add in the leader killed rule from LR and anytime the Mumak is shot at you roll to see if the driver is killed, then wild charge takes over. If I remember correctly that is more or less how it happened in the LOTR rules. Need to pull them out and look them over. Great Ideas form all of you, Thanks. Both my friend and I have a pretty good size collection of the GW LotR figures and have been really looking forward to DR so we can use them again. Though we have had several games of LR with Orcs vs Rohan and those played out well too.

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#10 [url]

Jan 7 16 12:36 PM

I wonder if Wild Charge might be a bit of a red herring here? I mean, we want a wounded mumak to be charging around wildly, but the Wild Charge rule really describes uncontrollable aggression

So, how about this? When a mumak is Battered, it will move randomly every turn until it rallies (and, as with a normal Battered unit, its chances of rallying will diminish with each unsuccessful attempt). Rather than becoming subject to Wild Charge, a Battered mumak will always move its full distannce, but this move is treated as an attack if it brings the beast into contact with another unit (friend or foe). To determine the direction, you could use Andrea's excellent system from Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes: roll two dice and trace a line from the lower roll to the higher. The beast moves that way - and woe betide anything that gets in its path!

The advantage of this would be that you get a creature that really runs amok - moving randomly and rapidly around the table until it succumbs to its death agonies or runs back to Harad. A successful rally indicates that the mahout (or another crew member) has regained control - so that the creature can begin to move or shoot as normal from the next turn. 

If you just add the Wild Charge rule, you'll end up with an out-of-control creature that will sometimes ... just stand still - and one that will target units rather than career around randomly.

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#12 [url]

Jan 8 16 1:03 PM

ThomO wrote:
I like that idea Hobgoblin, I like the random direction thing too!

I'm starting to wonder if if might fit most single-model Greater Warbeasts (dinosaurs, mammoths and the like). Perhaps it could be a zero-point Amok upgrade (it's as likely to hurt you as help you, after all).

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